Diane Vera

The Gay Pride parade this past Sunday

2009-07-02T12:45:11Z

This past Sunday, June 28, I participated in the Gay Pride parade in Manhattan, as I like to do every year. This is a huge annual event, with tens of thousands of people marching.

Before the march, I distributed about 300 flyers (PDF copy here and HTML copy here) promoting the July 9 meeting of the "Know Your Enemy" Project of New Yorkers Against Religion-Based Bigotry, and urging people to call their state senator about marriage equality. I gave about 200 more fliyers, total, to two other people to distribute also; I don't know how many of these actually got distributed.

I then marched with the bisexual contingent. Along the route, I distributed about 100 more flyers to people on the sidelines who looked like they might be interested. I looked for people already decorated with buttons, stickers, or pendants received from other marchers.

I then got into conversations with some people in the bi contingent, including two Pagans.

There was a small handful of counter-demonstrators at the traditional barricaded place allotted to them on one of the side streets across Fifth Avenue from St. Patrick's Cathedral. I saw a total of maybe a dozen counter-demonstrators, mostly men, including a few Orthodox Jews, plus one man holding up a sign promoting "Catholic moral doctrine," plus one man with a sign promoting American Free Press, a neo-Nazi publication. The really ironic thing that leapt out at me was that the neo-Nazi was standing right next to one of the ultra-Orthodox Jews. Perhaps the Jew didn't realize he was standing next to a neo-Nazi? The neo-Nazi wasn't wearing a swastika, and a lot of people probably don't know that American Free Press is a neo-Nazi publication.

The small number of counter-demonstrators might give some people the impression that we don't have a religious right wing here in New York. That's a misleading impression. We do indeed have a local organized religious right wing, even though, for the most part, it apparently doesn't consider counter-demonstrating at the Gay Pride march to be a productive use of its time.

As usual, there were quite a few liberal Christian religious groups marching in the parade. There were no Pagan groups, as there have not been for the past few years. There used to be a small group called "Witches and Pagans for Gay Rights," which marched every year. But not anymore -- even though there are some Pagan groups that meet at the LGBT Community Center in Manhattan.

Among the Groups Meeting Regularly at the Center, the following are listed: (1) Moonfire Empowerment & Spirituality Network, (2) Network for the Realization of the Goddess, (3) NYC Gay Men's Shamanic Circle, and (4) NYC Open Gay Men's Pagan Magick Circle. Surely these groups ought to be able to get together and organize a Pagan contingent for the Pride march?

Also on the above list of groups, I notice the Disclosure Network/New York (DNNY), about "UFO to Paranormal topics." I should look at their site sometime later. I hope they're not promoting David Icke-style grand conspiracy ideology, but I suspect they might be, alas.

Another organization I should probably pay some attention to, on the above list, is the Stop the False Arrests Campaign. I should learn about how activist groups interact with police on such issues, as this sort of thing is likely to come up for NYARBB eventually.

Will Espada bring the marriage equality bill to a vote in the NY State Senate?

2009-06-09T16:42:00Z

We shouldn't jump to conclusions as to what the recent power play in the NY State Senate means for same-sex marriage, according to James Withers of 365Gay.com, in What will happen now to marriage in New York?, June 9, 2009. He points out that, contrary to the conclusions some gay bloggers have jumpet to, Pedro Espada Jr. (State Senator from the Bronx) has not only promised to vote "Yes" on marriage equality but is one of the co-sponsors of the marriage equality bill, according to page 2 of the New York Times story G.O.P. Regains Control of New York State Senate by Danny Hakim and Jeremy W. Peters, June 8, 2009.

Even better news: New Senate President Wants Vote on Same-Sex Marriage by Danny Hakim, New York Times City Room Blog, June 9, 2009

Some recent blog posts, on otherwise worthwhile gay blogs, that jumped to wrong conclusions:

Same-sex Marriage Might Be DOA in New York by David Hart, Tips-Q, Monday, June 8, 2009. Hart is one of the bloggers who jumped to the conclusion that the two turncoat Democtats both oppose same-sex marriage. But Tips-Q has lots of interesting blog posts, including quite a few about various religious right wing leaders.

How Today's Circus in the New York Senate Affects Gay Marriage, Queerty, June 8, 2009. Doesn't say that Espada is an opponent of same-sex marriage, but does say, "If Republicans do take control over the Senate, they will certainly not allow a bill to reach the floor for a full vote. Which means even if Sen. Thomas Duane had locked up the 32 votes necessary to pass the bill, it's now dead in the water." Anyhow, Queerty has an interesting collection of stories about Ruben Diaz, the main NY state senator opposed to the marriage equality bill.

Latest news on same-sex marriage

2009-06-09T00:26:50Z

Will the marriage equality bill pass the NY State Senate? That's still very iffy. Meanwhile, the NY State Senate is in a procedural uproar, according to a news story today, State Senate GOP Seizes Control In Political Coup, NY1, June 8, 2009.

Below are more news stories. As usual, I've bolded some who/what/when/where details about the religious right wing that I want to research further.

First, here are some recent news stories about the New York marriage equality bill:

Smith: Not Enough Votes For Same-Sex Marriage Bill, NY1 News, June 5, 2009. Says:

New York State Senate Majority Leader Malcolm Smith is insisting he will not bring a bill legalizing same-sex unions to a vote unless he has the support to pass it.

NY1's tally on the proposed gay marriage bill currently stands at 20 lawmakers for the legislation, 28 against, 10 who are undecided, and four who will not say.

NY1's complete tally is here: NY1 Exclusive: Survey Of State Senators Shows Gay Marriage Bill In Jeopardy, NY1 News, June 5, 2009. The actual complete tally has 29 against and 9 undecided, rather than only 28 against and 10 undecided.

N.Y. takes center stage on gay marriage: Senate has until June 22 to take up bill by Valerie Richardson, Washington Times, Friday, June 5, 2009. Includes the following:

Assemblyman Danny O'Donnell, the brother of openly gay comedian Rosie O'Donnell, sponsored the bill in New York's Democrat-controlled lower house, where it won easily May 12 by a vote of 89-52. A similar bill was passed by the Assembly in 2007.

The holdup for gay-marriage advocates has long been the Senate. Supporters were hopeful that such a bill would be successful in 2009 after Democrats upended the Republican Senate majority in November, but so far that hasn't been the case.

The biggest obstacle to winning passage may be state Sen. Ruben Diaz Sr., a Democrat who has spearheaded the fight against same-sex marriage. Mr. Diaz has said there are six Democrat state senators who oppose the bill, which would leave the bill's advocates well short of a majority.

An evangelical pastor, Mr. Diaz helped lead a raucous May 17 protest outside the office of Democratic Gov. David A. Paterson, a strong supporter of the gay marriage bill. Mr. Paterson,who proposed the bill and has lobbied hard in favor of it, has called on the Senate leadership to bring the bill to the floor for a vote whether or not it has the support to pass.

A week after the rally, Mr. Diaz pointed to a Siena poll showing a drop in support among New Yorkers for same-sex marriage, with those in favor and those against now locked in a tie at 46 percent each.

"Before that demonstration, it was 53 percent in favor of gay marriage," Mr. Diaz told Talk 1300 AM radio.

Diaz claims his rally is what changed the poll numbers. A more likely cause would be the TV ad sponsored by the so-called "National Organization for Marriage," as mentioned in previous posts, plus maybe talk radio appearances by religious right wingers like Diaz. The Washington Times article goes on to say:

Evan Wolfson, executive director of Freedom to Marry, said backers of same-sex marriage are turning up the heat on their state senators through letters, e-mails and phone calls.

Wolfson is also quoted as follows:

"Almost every state New York touches has moved ahead of New York in protecting families and approving marriage equality," he said. "I'm very hopeful that if we do our work, tell our stories, the Senate will do the right thing."

Paterson: Treat Gay Marriage Like SONDA by Elizabeth Benjamin, Daily News, June 4, 2009. Paterson urges Malcolm Smith to go ahead and bring the bill to the floor for a vote, without waiting to be assured of enough votes.

New Yorkers respond to Prop. 8 ruling with their feet by Duncan Osborne, Chelsea Now, June 4-17, 2009. About a rally, in Manhattan, against the recent California Supreme Court decision upholing Proposition 8 and in favor of marriage equality in New York.

NY to be Niagara Falls of same-sex weddings? Pol thinks so by Frank Lombardi and Kenny Porpora, New York Daily News, Monday, June 8th 2009. (The "pol" is City Council Speaker Christine Quinn.)

Sen. David Valesky reconsidering his stance on same-sex marriage by Delen Goldberg, The Post-Standard, Syracuse, NY, Sunday June 07, 2009. He was formerly opposed, now undecided.

Nice day for a gay wedding by iriam Kreinin Souccar, Crain's New York Business, June 7, 2009. Includes the following paragraph about the religious right wing opponents:

Only recently have anti-gay marriage groups, such as the National Organization for Marriage, turned their focus to New York. The conservative Christian group, which fought against legalizing same-sex marriage in the Northeast and California, began running 30-second television and radio spots late last month in New York City and Albany. The organization is reportedly spending $100,000 on its media campaign.

City Marriage Bureau Preparing For Same-Sex Marriages, NY1 News, June 8, 2009.

And here are some news stories about the recent same-sex marriage victory in New Hampshire:

New Hampshire Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage by Abby Goodnough, New York Times, June 3, 2009. Says:

The bill had been through several permutations to satisfy Mr. Lynch and certain legislators that it would not force religious organizations that oppose same-sex marriage to participate in ceremonies celebrating it. Some groups had feared they could be sued for refusing to allow same-sex weddings on their property.

...

As more states have legalized same-sex marriage, opponents have increasingly lobbied for “conscience protections,” language that exempts religious organizations from having to participate.

But many of the bill’s opponents believe the language adopted by New Hampshire and several other states does not go far enough because it protects only religious groups and their employees. New Hampshire’s bill does not exempt photographers or florists, for example, from having to provide services.

But groups that advocate for gay rights, some of whom poured money into the state in recent months, said the law was yet another step toward mainstream America accepting same-sex marriage. “As people get to know the loving and committed couples at the heart of marriage equality,” said Neil G. Giuliano, president of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, “our culture is moving to equality.”

Kevin Smith, director of the Cornerstone Policy Research, a group opposing the bill, said lawmakers “rammed this legislation through” in a way that “reeks of backroom deals and a subversion of the legislative process.”

A sidebar contains a link to New Hampshire's same-sex marriage law itself on FindLaw.

New Hampshire Legalizes Same Sex Marriage, Ms., June 4, 2009. Briefly discusses the compromise wording that New Hampshire Governor John Lynch insisted on, then concludes by saying:

New Hampshire became the seventh state to legalize civil unions in 2007 and is the sixth state to legalize same sex marriage in the United States after Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont, and Maine. Similar legislation is currently under consideration in New York.

Here are some news stories about the Gay Pride parade here in Queens yesterday:

Participants hope Gay Pride parade will prompt anti-same-sex marriage politicians to reconsider by Clare Trapasso. New York Daily News, Friday, June 5th 2009

Thousands Turn Out for Queens Gay Pride Parade by Ellen Marski, WPIX, June 7, 2009.

Fight For Gay Marriage Moves To Queens by NY1 News, June 8, 2009.

And here is some other related stuff I found via Google news:

Revisiting 1969 and the Start of Gay Liberation by Sewell Chan, New York Times City Room blog, June 8, 2009 - about the exhibition at the New York Public Library

And now for some comic relief, a satirical opinion piece by Francesca Biller-Safran: Same-Sex Marriage Protestors Announce Jealousy of Gay Weddings, Huffington Post, June 4, 2009.

The religious right wing flexes its muscles in the NY State Senate

2009-06-04T18:04:31Z

Looks like the religious right wing has succeeded in stalling the same-sex marriage bill in the NY State Senate.

Below are some news stories from June 1. (I've bolded some who/what/when/where details that I should research further later.)

Marriage question is subject of vigil: Group prays for Senate to defeat same-sex bill by Jake May, Buffalo News, June 1, 2009. Says:

The New York legislation, which is supported by Gov. David A. Paterson, once seemed well on its way to approval, but opposition has been growing.

A poll released last week by the Siena Research Institute</b> found New Yorkers evenly divided on the issue, with 46 percent in favor and 46 percent against. A month earlier, the poll showed 53 percent in favor, compared with 29 percent against.

...

The New York legislation, which is supported by Gov. David A. Paterson, once seemed well on its way to approval, but opposition has been growing.

A poll released last week by the Siena Research Institute found New Yorkers evenly divided on the issue, with 46 percent in favor and 46 percent against. A month earlier, the poll showed 53 percent in favor, compared with 29 percent against.

A place where all things are possible? by Andrew Hedlund, ASU Web Devil, Monday, June 1, 2009. Says:

A conservative Arizona-based lobbyist group, the Alliance Defense Fund, is currently slowing the same-sex marriage movement. It is currently active in New York as an outside force halting the progressive nature of society.

Same sex marriage vote nowhere in sight, News Channel 9, WSYR-TV, Albany, NY, June 1, 2009. Says:

However, before the bill is put to a vote, it must first must make it past a committee, and right now, it's not even on the agenda for this senate session in the state legislature. The senate's majority leader Malcolm Smith has said he won’t bring the bill to the floor until it has at least 32 votes needed for passage.

Regardless, the staffers at the offices of representatives in Central New York say they've been getting a lot of calls from people on both sides of the issue.

Dick Cheney supports gay marriage according to an Associated Press article, June 1, 2009. In that same news story, however, Cheney continues to try to justify the torture of prisoners at Guantanamo. See also Cheney: Same-sex marriage is OK, Seattle Post Intelligencer, June 1, 2009.

And now for some more recent news stories on same-sex marriage, mentioning various religious right wing groups. Some stories from yesterday, June 3:

Quotes from New Hampshire's gay marriage debate by the Associated Press, Chicago Tribune, June 3, 2009. In favor of New Hampshire's same-sex marriage bill - which passed successfully - there's a quote from "the Rt. Rev. Gene Robinson, Episcopal bishop of New Hampshire, the church's only openly gay bishop." Against it, there are quotes from Kevin Smith, executive director of gay marriage opponent Cornerstone Policy Research, and Fenton Groen of Rochester

"To the polling booth." -- Gay marriage opponent Fenton Groen of Rochester, when asked what his next step would be after approval of the gay marriage bill.

In other words, a referendum like California's infamous Proposition 8 (2008).

Editorial: Vote on Gay Marriage, New York Times, June 3, 2009. Begins with the following concise summary of the current status of same-sex marriage here in New York State:

Six states have now made it legal for same-sex couples to marry. New York is not one of them. Gov. David Paterson wants the state to guarantee that right, and the protections that come with it, and the Assembly approved legislation legalizing same-sex marriage last month. Malcolm Smith, the leader of the State Senate, insists that he, too, favors marriage for gay couples, but he won’t let a bill go to the floor unless he’s privately lined up enough votes.

Foe of gay marriage bill challenges supporters, New York Newsday, June 3, 2009. About State Senator Ruben Diaz Sr., a conservative Democratic State Senator who opposes same-sex marriage.

NY Senate debate over gay marriage gets nasty

Newsday

Ruben Diaz

But Senate Democratic leader Malcolm Smith says he still doesn't have enough votes for the bill to pass.

This week, Sen. Thomas Duane, an openly gay lawmaker sponsoring the bill, said he has enough votes now to pass it. He wouldn't identify the supporters.

2,500 Rally For Same-Sex Marriage, Queens Gazette, June 3, 2009.

The group Western Queens for Marriage Equality co-sponsored a rally attended by close to 2,500 supporters on Sunday evening, May 31 in Athens Square Park in Astoria. Jeremiah Frei-Pearson, one of the group’s leaders, and Ron Zacchi, its executive director, conducted the proceedings, which urged state Senate Majority Leader Malcolm Smith to bring Governor David Paterson’s Marriage Equality bill to a vote before the state senate session ends on June 22, and pushing for both Smith and state Senator George Onorato to vote yes. All of the speakers present gave strong reasons in favor of the bill. Father Louis Braxton of Carmen’s Place, a shelter for LBGT youth, reported that he and a group of older people met with Onorato and pleaded with him on behalf of the youth, stating that the young people Braxton works with deserve to get married and have families some day.

...

The rally was sponsored by a coalition of groups including Western Queens for Marriage Equality, Marriage Equality New York, Democracy for New York City, the New York Civil Liberties Union, Long Island City Alliance, New York State Young Democrats, Queens County Young Democrats, NewYorkEquality.com, West Queens Greens, the Jewish Alliance for Change, IntegrityNYC, Broadway Impact, Civil Rights Front, The Power, Civil Marriage Trail Project, OUT Astoria, Astorians United Against Hate Crimes and Astorians United for Peace and Justice.

Actress Cynthia Nixon is lobbying New York lawmakers to legalize same-sex marriage and says she hopes to marry her partner in New York next year if the law is enacted, according to the news story Actress Nixon pushes same-sex marriage in NY, Associated Press, via Google News, June 3, 2009.

And now for some news stories from today, June 4:

Same-Sex Marriage In NY State: The NH Solution? by Evan Dawson, 13 WHAM, Rochester, NY, no date (June 4?). Suggests adding a religious exemption to the bill, specifically allowing clergy to refuse to perform ceremonies contrary to their faith. (I don't think clergy could be forced to perform such ceremonies anyway, but perhaps such an explicit clause is necessary to take the wind out of the sails of religious right wingers' claims that their own "religious freedom" is threatened.) Contains links to (1) Is Gay Marriage Coming or Going in NY State? by Nate Silver, FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right, June 3, 2009, about a poll of NY State's 62 state senators by NY1, and (2) The New Hampshire Formula by Andrew Sullivan, June 3, 2009, on the website of The Atlantic.

New York Bishops Issue Statement Against Same-Sex Marriage, on the website Catholic Culture: Living the Catholic Life, June 4, 2004. Contains a link to the statement itself, Statement of the Catholic Bishops of New York State on Marriage, dated June 1, 2009, on the website of the New York State Catholic Conference. This statement is also said to have been issued "today" in a news story dated June 3, New York Catholic Bishops issue statement on same-sex marriage, News 10 WHEN, Albany, NY. The latter story begins as follows:

In New York, the issue of same-sex marriage seems to be "dead in the water" for the time being, but the State's Roman Catholic bishops are not taking any chances.

The eight bishops, including Howard Hubbard of the Albany Diocese, called on Catholics and all New Yorkers Wednesday to contact their State Senators, urging them to oppose the legalization bill that already passed the Assembly.

Christian Minister Fights for Gay Marriage Berkeley Daily Planet, June 04, 2009. About the Rev. Mark Wilson, an openly gay African-American evangelical. Includes the following:

Initially, the black church was blamed for the passage of Prop. 8 by many on the left. Exit polls suggested that many of the same African-American voters who turned out to support Barack Obama also tipped the balance on Prop. 8.

But a study conducted by Patrick Egan of New York University and Kenneth Sherrill of Hunter College revealed that the “Yes on Proposition 8” vote in California had less to do with race and was much more about religion. When Egan and Sherrill sliced up the pie, they discovered that roughly 70 percent of Californians who attend religious worship on a weekly basis supported Prop. 8, regardless of their race. And since African-Americans attend religious services on a more frequent basis than the average Californian, it is only to be expected that a majority of voters in the African-American community supported Prop. 8.

Kenneth P. Miller, associate professor of government at Claremont McKenna College in Southern California, recently published an article, “The Democratic Coalition’s Religious Divide: Why California Voters Supported Obama but Not Same-Sex Marriage,” that describes the electoral politics that drove the vote on Prop. 8. Miller said same-sex marriage proponents will need to make inroads with the Christian community in California if they are to produce a different outcome in 2010 or 2012.

“They need to persuade those Christian voters that extending marriage rights to the gay community is consistent with their religious beliefs, not undermining them,” he said. “There are a lot of strong Christian arguments for and against gay marriage.”

Rev. Wilson has spent a lifetime in this polarized Christian debate on homosexuality. From as far back as Wilson can remember, he’s known two things about himself: he has a natural gift for preaching the gospel, and he is gay.

Well, it will be interesting to see whether any significant change on this issue develops amongst otherwise conservative evangelicals. So far, as a general rule, those Christian churches that favor gay rights tend to be of the more liberal sort which don't believe in a Devil.

Some detailed info about our enemies

2009-06-01T12:03:02Z

On Friday I found a bunch of recent news stories about the same-sex marriage issue. One of the stories inspired me to write this NYARBB blog post, which I may also use as the beginning of a NYARBB pamphlet to be distributed at the Queens Gay Pride march.

Below are the recent news stories. (I've bolded who/what/when/where details that I want to research further.)

Same-sex marriage debate heats up in New York by John King, CNN, Fri May 22, 2009 - links to a collection of news stories involving the so-called National Organization for Marriage, said to be headed by Maggie Gallagher. All these stories, so far, are about Carrie Prejean (Miss California USA), whom the NOM has adopted as a spokesperson.

Ad Campaign Slams Same-Sex Marriage in NY, WNYC, May 28, 2009 - just describes the ad, after describing the National Organization for Marriage (NOM) as "the conservative Christian group that helped push through Proposition 8, the bill that defeated same-sex marriage in California."

Another story from CNN, Group targets New York same-sex marriage bill in new ads by Martina Stewart, May 28, 2009 - contains a detailed description of the ad and then says, "The ads are being supported by a $100,000 ad buy in Long Island and the Albany-Schenectady area, according the National Organization for Marriage."

Battle over same sex marriage continues by Erin Billups, Capital News 9, May 29, 2009 - briefly mentions the National Organization and then has more to say about "another group, the Coalition to Save Marriage in New York," which "says all of its 14 member organizations have beefed up their opposition as well." This story contains several quotes from Stephen Hayford, identified as the co-founder of the Coalition to Save Marriage in New York. These groups have been quite active, apparently: "Last week, Republican Senator Jim Alesi, identified as one lawmaker who may be on the fence regarding the issue, said his office was getting close to 100 calls a day from gay marriage opponents. North Country Republican Betty Little says she's getting the calls, too, more with each passing week and now as many 50 a day." The story concludes by saying, "There will be a rally at the Capitol June 9th, organized by groups opposed to same sex marriage, the first of kind in Albany this year."

Group Begins Ad Blitz Against Same-Sex Marriage by Jeremy W. Peters, New York Times, May 27, 2009 - about a TV ad campaign by the National Organization for Marriage (identified as a conservative Christian group) in the New York City and Albany markets. "The National Organization for Marriage said its initial ad spending, which includes the television commercial and a radio spot, was just over $100,000." The article also contains some quotes from founder Maggie Gallagher.

’Gathering Storm’ Group Releases New Anti-Gay Ad in NY by Kilian Melloy, EDGE (Boston, MA), Friday May 29, 2009 - mentions that the so-called National Organization for Marriage (NOM) is "a New Jersey-based group." The EDGE site also says, "The NOM site’s text solicits contributions and encourages New York residents to contact their state Senators at (518) 455-2800 about the issue." Of course, people on our side should do the same.

Here is a collection of quotes by Maggie Gallagher. From it, I found a bunch of earlier news stories.

Hare are some of those earlier stories:

N.J. group makes waves in Calif. gay marriage debate: National Organization for Marriage leads in ban attempt, Washington Blade, Jul 25 2008 -- an older article about the NOM, which led the campaign for California's state constitutional amendment prohibiting same-sex marriage. This article mentions that NOM was founded by "Maggie Gallagher, a syndicated columnist," and "Robert George, a Princeton University professor." This article also mentions "Len Deo, the president of the Family Policy Council of New Jersey." About fundraising, this article says:

NOM, a taxable political advocacy group that can raise money without contribution limits, has quickly built up some fundraising muscle. It started a California chapter in January. By March, the group had raised just over $775,000, according to campaign finance filings. Only the California umbrella group ProtectMarriage.com has raised more for the cause. While NOM's biggest chunk in California -- $250,000 -- came from the Knights of Columbus, the group has also raised smaller amounts from individuals. The group says it has now raised over $1 million in California and more than $2 million overall."

Calif. win emboldens coalition of religious groups by Lisa Leff, Associated Press (via Fox News), Friday, November 07, 2008 - about NOM's win in California:

Leaders of the successful Proposition 8 campaign say an unusual coalition of evangelical Christians, Mormons and Roman Catholics built a majority at the polls Tuesday by harnessing the organizational muscle of churches to a mainstream message about what school children might be taught about gay relationships if the ban failed.
...
Gallagher said anti-gay marriage groups plan to focus next on New Jersey and New York, where the state legislatures are being lobbied to pass laws legalizing same-sex marriage.

The plan is to mobilize the same religious factions that joined forces in California to deter lawmakers from "taking on this divisive social issue while we are in the middle of a huge financial crisis," Gallagher said.

Campaign operatives attribute their success to the churches, which served as voter registration centers, phone banks and volunteer recruitment hubs.

Religious institutions also gave Proposition 8's sponsors an avenue to a range of ethnic voters, including many Democrats, said Mat Staver, who heads the Florida-based Christian legal group Liberty Counsel.

Catholic and evangelical Hispanics and African-American Baptists stood alongside conservative white evangelicals in arguing for traditional marriage. Exit polls showed 70 percent of blacks supported the ban, a far higher percentage than any other race.

"This is an issue that ... transcends political ideology, religious affiliations, races and time and history," said Staver. "It brings people together who ordinarily wouldn't be sitting at the same table together."

The article also points to overconfidence and apathy, on the part of gay rights supporters, as another key factor, quoting some gay rights activists to that effect.

Update on same-sex marriage in New York State

2009-05-28T04:51:48Z

Here in New York State, a marriage equality bill has been passed overwhelmingly in the State Assembly, but we're now waiting for the State Senate, where it will be a tighter race.

According to the New York Daily News (GAYS RAGE VS. POL: State sen.'s same-sex marriage stance opposite of nabe's: group by Brendan Brosh, Tuesday, May 26th 2009), one of the opponents is State Sen. George Onorato, a Democrat representing western Queens. According to this news story, marriage equality advocates "say the lawmaker is out of touch with his district, home to one of the city's largest gay and lesbian communities." But his Chief of Staff Janet Kash is quoted as saying, "We're getting a lot of calls, e-mails and letters from both sides."

The Daily News story also says:

Senate Majority Leader Malcolm Smith (D-St. Albans) has said he won't call for a vote in the Senate until enough support is lined up to pass it. Of the seven senators from Queens, Onorato, Frank Padavan (R-Bellerose) and Shirley Huntley (D-Jamaica) have stated their opposition to the bill.

The Daily News story mentions that there will be a pro-marriage-equality rally in Astoria on Sunday. I found no further information about the rally via Google News.

Another recent news story (Support Grows For Same-Sex Marriage by Jennifer De Pinto, CBS News, May 27, 2009) discusses various poll results showing that support for same-sex marriage has grown amongst the general population.

"The Necronomicon" - To Jenny

2009-05-27T21:14:45Z

In a comment that I've left screened because it contains the person's email address, someone named Jenny asked me about the Necronomicon.

The Necronomicon was originally a nonexistent fictional text that was referred to in H.P. Lovecraft's stories. Since then, a number of different "Necronomicons" have appeared. I am not aware of any good reason to believe that any of these are the "real" Necronomicon originally referred to by Lovecraft.

Personally I have no use for any of the Necronomicons.

Some people find passages from one or more of the Necronomicons to be useful in ritual. I have no problem with this as long as people don't claim it's genuinely ancient.

The Necronomicons will not be part of Church of Azazel ritual.

Same-sex marriage rallies, for and against

2009-05-19T04:59:38Z

On Sunday, May 17, there were rallies in Manhattan on both sides of the same-sex marriage issue.

Here are news stories about the rallies:

In Midtown, Opposing Rallies on Same-Sex Marriage by Sewell Chan, New York Times City Room Blog, May 18, 2009

Opposing Rallies Over Issue of Same-Sex Marriage by Jeremy W. Peters and Mathew R. Warren, New York Times, May 17, 2009

Gay marriage battle draws huge rallies for and against; Mayor Bloomberg senses 'history' in making by Erica Pearson and Bill Hutchinson, New York Daily News, Monday, May 18th 2009

Dueling Rallies Over Same-Sex Marriage by Arun Venugopal, WNYC

Rallies battle over same-sex marriage, Philadelphia Metro - May 17, 2009 (includes some specific info about the opponents)

Gay-Nuptual Rallies Clash by Perry Chiaramonte and Sally Goldenberg, New York Post, May 18, 2009 (includes some specific info about the opponents)

Rabbi rage at anti-gay marriage rally, Polit Bureau, May 18, 2009

Anti-gay protestors treat Sen. Ruben Diaz like a god [video], GaySocialites, May 18, 2009

'Ugly Betty' star Ana Ortiz takes on NY state Sen. Ruben Diaz [video], GaySocialites.com, May 18, 2009

Guv, Mayor Headline Marriage Equality Rally by Paul Schindler, Gay City News, May 18, 2009

Major Rallies For and Against Marriage Equality Ring Out in New York - Towleroad, May 18, 2009

Critics, Proponents Of Gay Marriage Hold Competing Protests In New York, AHN, May 19, 2009 (includes details about anti-gay rally, e.g. that it was organized by Radio Vision Cristiana International)

Thousands of NY Christians Protest Gay Marriage by Jennifer Riley, Christian Post, May 18, 2009

Marriage Rallies Take Manhattan by Judy Bolcer, The Advocate, May 18, 2009

What's noteworthy here is the leading role of Hispanic Pentecostals. In years past, here in New York City, our local religious right wing consisted primarily of the Catholic hierarchy plus ultra-Orthodox Jews. Pentecostals and other Protestant evangelicals did not play a major political role around here, as far as I could tell. That seems to be changing.

An even more ominous new (as far as I am aware) development is the direct involvement of a Democratic politician, State Senator Rubén Díaz Sr. in organizing an anti-gay rally. Politicians, even Republican ones, don't usually take a direct leadership role in activist organizing for or against specific political causes. Usually they'll only lend their name to a cause that's already well-organized and popular among their constituents. Evidently there must be lots of well-organized homophobia in Rubén Díaz's neck of the woods.

P.S., May 19, 2009: Religious right wing in Nassau County

In the following new story:

NY Assembly to support gay marriage; protest looms by Michael Gormley, Associated Press, New York Newsday, May 11, 2009.

State Senator Kemp Hannon, a Nassau County Republican, is quoted as saying, "The surprising thing is the amount of concern in my district -- it's been considerable." Evidently there has been quite a bit of religious right wing activity in Nassau County. The Newsday story adds, "He said he's not hearing arguments against gays as much as he's hearing support for the 'traditional definition of marriage.'" Yeah, the standard religious right wing line these days.

It would be interesting to find out what political activist organizations and what religious bodies are behind this in Nassau County.

Sex workers' rights websites and groups

2009-05-14T15:30:48Z

One of the issues that New Yorkers Against Religion-Based Bigotry will eventually concern itself with is the rights of sex workers. In preparation for this, I've located some relevant organizations and websites.

Spread Magazine

Prostitutes of New York (PONY). The information here looks very old, but apparently was still up-to-date as of October 2007, judging by this press release. There's also a PONY website, last updated 2003.

Sex Worker’s Outreach Project NYC (SWOP-NYC) (information about meetings here

Sex Workers Outreach Project (SWOP) East ( and its blog

Sex Workers Outreach Project - USA (site includes page about International Day to End Violence Against Sex Workers, including international list of organizations)

The Sex Workers Project (and page about it on the website of the Urban Justice Center)

Desiree Alliance (main page includes list of blogs)

What About Kristen? - press release with contact info for various groups, as of March 11, 2008 (another copy here)

Sex Workers Internet Radio Library (SWIRL)

None of these groups seem to be holding any events in the near future, other than regular public meetings of SWOP-NYC.

P.S. (May 16, 2009): I just now learned of the existence of a new Meetup group, Savvy Sex, which is concerned about a variety of issues including the rights of sex workers.

NY State same-sex marriage bill passes Assembly; now it's up to the State Senate

2009-05-13T07:40:10Z

Yay! It passed the Assembly. Now it's the State Senate's turn. And that is still quite iffy, even though Democrats are now a majority.

Assembly OKs same-sex marriage bill by larger margin by James T. Madore, New York Newsday, May 12, 2009

New York moves closer to same-sex marriage - CNN

State Assembly says okay to gay marriage; fate rests with Senate by Glenn Blain, New York Daily News, Tuesday, May 12th 2009

And, on a related note: Five states where same-sex marriage is legal, New York Newsday, May 12, 2009.

New York State same-sex marriage bill -- how to support it

2009-05-12T15:48:49Z

The New York State same-sex marriage bill is A07732 in the State Assembly and S4401 in the State Senate. You can look up your State Assembly member here and your State Senator here. Please call your Assembly member TODAY if you have not done so already -- the bill is getting voted on today.

For more about the bill and what's happening with it, see:

Queers United: New York Assembly to Vote on Marriage Equality Tomorrow! (That's TODAY! -- Call your Assembly Member ASAP!), Monday, May 11, 2009

Coming out on top: Marriage Equality Estimates and Predictions, Friday, May 1, 2009

New York Daily News blogs: Gay Marriage Bill On The Move In Assembly by Elizabeth Benjamin, April 24, 2009

Tips-Q: Marriage Momentum in the Empire State, April 23, 2009

National Association of Social Workers - New York State Chapter - Act Now to Support Same-sex Marriage!

As for rallies here in New York City, I'll post info on the message board of NYARBB's Meetup site, as I come across it. The next rally I know of is on May 17. (Alas, I won't be able to attend.)

Who opposes same-sex marriage here in New York?

2009-05-11T20:07:05Z

Last month, New Governor David Paterson announced he would introduce a bill in the state legislature to legalize same-sex marriage here in New York State. Some relevant news stories:

New York governor to push same-sex marriage bill by Laurie Segall, CNN, Thu April 16, 2009

Paterson Unveils Same-Sex Marriage Bill by Jeremy W. Peters AND Sewell Chan, New York Times City Room blog post, April 16, 2009

NY governor introduces bill to allow same-sex marriage by Michael Virtanen, Associated Press, Gay & Lesbian Times (San Diego, CA), Thursday, 23-Apr-2009

The latter article mentions two of the main opponents of same-sex marriage: (1) State Senator Rubén Díaz Sr., who is also pastor of the (Pentecostal) Christian Community Neighborhood Church in the Bronx, and (2) the new Catholic Archbishop Timothy Dolan.

More about Rubén Díaz can be found in the New York Times City Room blog post Bronx Senator Organizing Protest of Marriage Bill by Mathew R. Warren, April 16, 2009. This blog post mentions an organization called the New York Hispanic Clergy Association, which held a meeting at Díaz's church in opposition to {Paterson's proposed same-sex marriage legislation. According to Warren, "Mr. Díaz told those in attendance that they were starting to plan a large rally to be held some time in May."

Warren also names and quotes two other opponents of same-sex marriage who attended the meeting: the Rev. Michael Lopez, of the Love, Power and Grace Church in the Bronx, and (2) Miguel Perdomo, who lives (or works?) in Throgs Neck and is a member of the Second Star of Jacob Church in the Bronx.

Also in mid-April, the new Catholic Archbishop Timothy Dolan held a news conference in which, "Asked about Gov. David A. Paterson’s plan to introduce a bill that would legalize same-sex marriage in New York, he said the church’s position on the issue was clear, but he declined to specify whether or how actively he would lobby the governor and state lawmakers on the issue," according to another New York Times City Room blog post, Archbishop Dolan’s First News Conference by Sewell Chan, April 15, 2009. Dolan explained that he is too new on the job to know, yet, exactly what he is going to do.

Another likely opponent might be the local Mormon churches, though I haven't yet seen any news as to exactly what they are doing. I did come across a New York Times City Room blog post from back in November, At Mormon Temple, a Protest Over Prop 8 by Colin Moynihan, November 13, 2008, about a protest by gay rights activists against the Mormon church's support of Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage in California. According to Moynihan, "Thousands of protesters marched to Columbus Circle from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints temple at 125 Columbus Avenue on Wednesday evening."

Paterson's proposed legislation is opposed by most Christian clergy in the southern part of upstate New York, according to the Gannett article Christian clergy mostly oppose same-sex marriage by William Moyer, pressconnects.com, Greater Binghamton, New York, May 9, 2009. This article mentions that "the region's largest Protestant denomination - the United Methodist Church - strictly forbids pastors from participating in same-sex ceremonies, according to policy set by a quadrennial national conference." The United Methodist Church is, generally speaking, a middle-of-the-road Protestant denomination.

Looking for more information about the protest organized by Rubén Díaz, I found NY clergy to protest gay marriage proposal, Associated Press, via Fox44 News, May 11, 2009, which says:

NEW YORK (AP) - A group of Hispanic religious leaders is planning to hold an anti-gay marriage rally outside of Gov. David Paterson's Manhattan office.

The group announced on Monday that it will hold the demonstration on Sunday.

The gay marriage opponents include state Sen. Ruben Diaz of the Bronx. Diaz also is a minister.

The protest is being organized by Vision Cristiana Internacional and the New York Hispanic Clergy Organization.

Also I found Gay Marriage rally in the works Sunday after NY AIDS walk, on GaySocialites.com, May 8, 2009:

I heard that several gay groups are scurring to organize a huge pro-gay marriage rally in Times Square on Sunday immediately following the AIDS Walk in New York.

Insiders tell me that this in response to a massive group of homophobes who plan to protest outside Governor David Paterson's Manhattan offices. The haters, led by Senator Ruben Diaz, are pissed that Paterson introduced a bill that would bring marriage equality to New York.

Unfortunately, no details are provided here as to which groups are involved in organizing the pro-gay marriage rally.

According to the Legislative Gazette article Same-sex marriage opponent, Sen. Diaz, says he will ask gov. not to seek re-election by Katrina Kieltyka, Monday Apr 20, Diaz said that he and more than 100 ministers are “in the process in the next few weeks to organize a demonstration of the Hispanic community to ask Gov. Paterson not to be a candidate for governor.”

State Senator Rubén Díaz has a son, Rubén Díaz, Jr., who is the newly elected borough president of the Bronx. Díaz Jr. has "an out gay chief of staff, Paul Del Duca, long active with the Stonewall Democratic Club of New York and his chief of staff as a member of the State Assembly as well," according to Out Gay Chief for Diaz by Andy Humm, Gay City News, April 30, 2009. Humm also says, "Diaz, Jr. had a mixed record in the Legislature on LGBT issues, voting against the marriage equality bill, but supporting the anti-bullying bill, transgender rights legislation, and most of the other items advocated by the Empire State Pride Agenda, the state's LGBT lobby." For more about Díaz Jr., see Díaz Unites Bronx Democrats in Race for Borough President by David M. Halbfinger, New York Times, April 20, 2009.

About the same-sex marriage issue in general, there's a very informative page titled Same-Sex Marriage, Civil Unions, and Domestic Partnerships on the New York Times site, containing links to many articles on this topic, including not only New York Times articles but also the "Same-Sex Marriage Navigator," a "list of resources from around the Web about same-sex marriage as selected by researchers and editors of The New York Times." One article not listed there is the New York Times City Room blog post, On a Matter of Marriage in New York by Sewell Chan, May 8, 2009, discussing the history of some relevant legal issues.

Hasidic groups vs. other Jews

2009-04-24T11:52:01Z

Recently. I've gotten to know someone who is a former Lubavitcher Hasidic Jew, who managed to leave that way of life (rather cult-like, according to her) and build a new life for herself.

Apparently, leaving Hasidic Judaism can be extremely difficult. As a general rule, Hasidic groups shun contact with the outside world and ostracize anyone in the community who breaks that taboo. This means that anyone who leaves the community has to re-build one's entire life.

Here's an article about Hasidim who want to leave but feel trapped: Rebels: The Other Face of Chasidim by Hella Winston, Jewish Journal, November 24, 2005.

And here are some websites by other Orthodox Jews critical of the Chabad Lubavitch movement: Problems with Lubavitch blog and Chabad Mafia (a website by non-Lubavitch orthodox Jews).

Hindu exorcism site echoes Christian prejudice against Wiccans (and mentions Satan too)

2009-04-24T03:49:04Z

I recently came across a really weird website advertising Hindu exorcisms. The site features "Indian Vedic Rituals," "Yagya & Homam," and Hindu "Holy Talismans."

But it's not clear to me who the target audience for this site is. Is it aimed at actual Hindus, or is it aimed at Western New Agers? Offnand, I would guess the former, judging by the site's not-so-great English. It does not appear to be aimed at well-educated, well-to-do Westerners. But the site also draws ideas from Christianity in terms of the kinds of evils it claims to be able to remove, . These include:

... EVIL SPIRITS
... EVIL SATAN
... EVIL AURA
... WITCHCRAFT
... GHOST
... WICCAN SPIRITS
... DEMONS & SATAN

WTF is a "Wiccan spirit," and why is a Hindu website echoing the conservative Christian prejudice against same?

I'm back again, at least for now

2009-04-24T01:42:12Z

I've been away for a long time -- very busy with a new job, among other things.

Some good news: As of this past month, I've found a very passionate co-administrator for the budding NYC proto-congregation of the Church of Azazel, and also for New Yorkers Against Religion-Based Bigotry. Hopefully both can now, finally, begin to get off the ground. I cannot launch them all by myself.

I've added the following to "contact" pages various places on my websites:

My online activities are very intermittent, due to a hectic work schedule. I sometimes neglect my blogs for months at at time. If I do not promptly approve or respond to a comment you posted on one of my blogs, you may call my attention to it via Noelle, co-administrator of the Church of Azazel, via the Church of Azazel's Myspace page, which is run by Noelle.

Pope setting up "exorcism squads," according to Gabriele Amorth

2008-06-09T20:46:14Z

Here's a news story I missed during the time I took a break from monitoring online developments having to do with Satanism:

Pope's exorcist squads will wage war on Satan by Nick Pisa, Daily Mail (U.K.), 29 December 2007, begins as follows:

The Pope has ordered his bishops to set up exorcism squads to tackle the rise of Satanism.

Vatican chiefs are concerned at what they see as an increased interest in the occult.

They have introduced courses for priests to combat what they call the most extreme form of "Godlessness."

Each bishop is to be told to have in his diocese a number of priests trained to fight demonic possession.

The initiative was revealed by 82-year-old Father Gabriele Amorth, the Vatican "exorcist in chief," to the online Catholic news service Petrus.

...

Father Paolo Scarafoni, who lectures on the Vatican's exorcism course, said interest in Satanism and the occult has grown as people lost faith with the church.

I found the above in a post by Frederick Clarkson on Talk To Action.

See also the following posts on my Theistic Satanism blog (listed below in forward chronological order):

Full-blown alleged SRA case in Italy - Friday, April 27, 2007
Some news from Italy, about Satanism and about the Catholic Church - Monday, April 28, 2008
More about Satanism and the Catholic Church in Italy - Friday, May 2, 2008
Blaming "Satanists" for Catholic clergy sex scandals??? - Saturday, May 3, 2008
How they'll clean up after you at a Maltese hospital - Tuesday, May 13, 2008

Noach Dear, anti-gay judge in New York City

2008-06-09T18:56:34Z

In most parts ot the U.S.A., the religious right wing seems to be dominated by evangelical Christians. But here in New York City, it seems to be dominated by ultra-conservative Catholics and ultra-Orthodox Jews.

And one of its leaders is now a judge.

As one NYC blogger, Bouldin, wrote back on 20 October 2007:

Imagine, if you will, the following scenario. You are in the Jim Crow South. You are in a courtroom as a party to a lawsuit. You are black. Your judge has actively campaigned for segregation.

How certain are you that you will get justice from the bench?

Fast forward to the very near future, in January 2008, when this exact scenario will play out in Brooklyn, one of the constituent parts of the shining global metropolis that is New York City. Except that, in keeping with the most current prejudices, you need to be gay or lesbian to face this disquieting perspective, should you wind up in the courtroom of one Noach Dear, who recently prevailed in a primary battle for a civil court seat.

Dear, of course, led the opposition to New York City's gay rights bill; was the only member of the Brooklyn City Council delegation to vote against the 1998 domestic partnership bill; and, in an abortive Congressional run as a republican against Anthony Weiner, had the latter's speeches in favor of LGBT equality taped and then replayed to Orthodox audiences.

He is indeed now a judge (see recent news stories mentioning Noach Dear in the New York Daily News) even though the New York City Bar Association deemed him to be unqualified. (See City Bar Association: Robert Johnson, Noach Dear Unfit to Serve by Azi Paybarah, New York Observer October 29, 2007.)

For more background on Noach Dear, see:

Noach Dear: Master of Overlapping Interests by Martin Gottlieb, New York Times, May 22, 1991

Keeping Dear Close—Causes and Consequences by John DeSio, City Hall News, September 14, 2007

Gotham Gazette's Law Links (includes various articles about Noach Dear)

Brooklyn Court System as Political Garbage Dump, blog post by mole333 on Daily Gotham, 17 October 2007

Frank L. Cocozzelli on "The Catholic Right"

2008-06-07T20:20:07Z

Talk To Action has a weekly series by Frank L. Cocozzelli on "The Catholic Right," about the Catholic religious right wing. The most recent post in the series is Jindal, Rising, about Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal. Frank Cocozzelli apparently lives in Brooklyn, judging by his post My Son's School, in which he identifies his parish as St. Finbar's in the Bensonhurst section of Brooklyn, New York.

Each post contains a complete list of links to all previous posts in the series. But the links are identified only by number, not by title or topic. So, here's a list of all the posts, with titles:

1. The Catholic Right

2. An Introduction To The Role Of Opus Dei

3. Rev. John McCloskey, the Face of an Opus Dei Agenda

4. William Donohue And The Politics Of The Catholic League

5. The Everyday Implications of Theocracy

6. Has Anyone Seen Bill? (about Bill Donohue the video game Left Behind: Eternal Forces)

7. The Catholic Right: Intermezzo

8. Carlism and the Catholic Right

9. John Allen's Sins of Omission (about Opus Dei)

10. Tom Monaghan: The Pizza-man Who Delivers the Dough

11. The Pizza-man Delivers; the Thomas More Law Center

12. The Pizza-man Delivers His Dream Town and Dream School

13. The Pizza-man Delivers: Monaghan's Dough for Radical Right Politicos

14. The Catholic Right: The Song of Santorum

15. The Catholic Right: Second Intermezzo

16. Opus Disruption in KC-St. Joe

17. A Question for Neoconservatives of the Catholic Right

17. A Question for Neoconservatives of the Catholic Right (Leo Strauss)

18. Has Anyone Seen Bill...At All? (Bill Donohue and Left Behind: Eternal Forces)

19. Uncatholic Behavior in Nebraska (mass excommunication of members of liberal Catholic groups by Bishop Fabian Bruzkewitz in Lincoln, Nebraska)

20. The Lure of Monarchy and its Variants

21? (bad link, goes to an irrelevant page)

22. Smorgasbord Bill and Friends At It Again

23. The UnDonohue (contrasts Catholic League with ADL and Sister Joan Chittister)

24? (bad link, goes to an irrelvant page)

25? (bad link, goes to front page)

26. An Opus Focus on SCOTUS?

27. An Opus Focus on SCOTUS?

28. An Opus Focus on SCOTUS?

29. When the Inquisitional Urge Gets the Better of Bill (Bill Donohue and historical revisionism about the Inquisition)

30? (bad link, goes to an irrelevant page)

31. Renegade Catholic Right Bishop Refuses to Participate in Anti-Pedophile Program (Bishop Fabian Bruzkewitz in Lincoln, Nebraska)

32. The "Rite" Stuff? (restoring Tridentine rite)

33. A Neo-Orthodox View of Christian Unity

34. The Neo-Orthodox Margin and Their Converts

35. Thompson-Brownback: The GOP's '08 Ticket?

36. From Neuhaus to Our House

37. An Introduction to Michael Novak's State-Based Faith

38. The Outer Limits: Or Pluralism According to Michael Novak

39. Michael Novak's Ethics of Buccaneer Capitalism

40. Third Intermezzo: Recommended Reading

41. A Deficient Definition of Liberty

42. Where Is The Catholic Right's Outrage Over the S-CHIP Veto?

43. Anti-Catholicism, Real and Imagined

44. George of the Neocon Jungle, Part 1 (Robert P. George)

45. George of the Neocon Jungle, Part II

46. Still Unwilling to be Accountable (Bishop Bruskewitz and clergy pedophilia)

47. Bruskewitz Gives Accountability the Brush-off - Again

48. The Consequences of Papal Priorities

49. Abortion-Again-As Litmus Test

50. The Bully in St. Louie (Archbishop Raymond Burke)

51. Donohue as Broken Watch (Bill Donohue vs. McCain and Hagee)

52. My Son's School (St. Finbar, Bensonhurst in Brooklyn, NY)

53. James Carroll in Light of Peter Abelard (Bill Donohue)

54. Slouching Towards Accountability To Be Born? (Bill Donohue)

55. Donohue's Red Herring on a Pedophile Protector

56. A Sacrament Abused (Cardinal Edward Egan, Archbishops Raymond Burke and Charles Chaput, etc.)

57. The Political Abuse of Communion, Continued

58. Masters of Natural Law

59. Jindal, Rising (Louisiana governor, Bobby Jindal )

P.S.: My list of Frank Cocozzelli's posts includes quite a few posts about Opus Dei, but none about the Legion of Christ. On Talk to Action, I just now posted Catholic religious right wing: Legion of Christ, to inform him about the latter order.

Christian and Jewish/Noahide theocratic movements

2008-06-05T21:02:24Z

In The End of American Jewry's Golden Era, Daniel Pipes is quoted as saying:

"Militant Islam cannot be compared to any segment of Christianity, Judaism, or Hinduism. These religions do not embody groups with totalitarian utopian ideologies that seek world hegemony.

Yes they do.

Admittedly, the Christian and Jewish equivalents of Islamism (the totalitarian ideology) are a much more marginal fringe, among adherents of their religions, than Islamists now are among Muslims. Hence they are currently far less dangerous on a worldwide scale. But they do exist. And, from my point of view, the Christian counterparts of Islamism do pose a real threat - although not nearly as big a threat, on a worldwide scale, as Islamism.

The Christian counterparts of Islamism are Reconstructionism and Dominionism, whose longterm goal is the restoration of "Biblical civil law." For Christian Reconstructionists and other hardcore Dominionists, this would include a death penalty, by stoning, for "idolators," "blasphemers," and homosexuals. Although they are a fringe, Reconstructionists and other Dominionists are disporportionately active in the Christian religious right wing, still a very powerful political movement.

Below are some articles about Reconstructionism and Dominion theology:

Dominionism and Christian Reconstructionism, Dominion Theology, and Theonomy - Recent Developments on the Religious Tolerance site

Wikipedia article on Dominion Theology

SourceWatch article on Dominionism

Invitation to a Stoning: Getting cozy with theocrats by Walter Olson, Reason Magazine (a Libertarian periodical), November 1998

Guide to the Christian Right The Christian Right, Dominionism, & Theocracy by Chip Berlet

Dominionism and Dominion Theology on the Theocracy Watch site

The Ayatollah of Holy Rollers by Steve Weissman, Truthout

A Nation Under God by John Sugg, Mother Jones, December/January 2006

America The Theocracy by John F.Sugg, Weekly Planet (Tampa, Florida) March 2004

Reconstruction Theology in Home Education - Mary McCarthy

Dominionism and the Rise of Christian Imperialism by Sarah Leslie, an evangelical Christian who is critical of dominionism

Your Guide to the Christian Reconstruction Movement - website, listing many resources pro and con, by an unorthodox advocate of Christian theocracy. (Note that, while Christian Reconstructionism per se may be "in decline," it's my impression that other branches of the larger "Dominion theology" movement are still growing.)

The Crusaders by Bob Moser, Rolling Stone, April 7, 2005

Jesus plus nothing: Undercover among America's secret theocrats by Jeffrey Sharlet, Harpers, March 2003 (see also Following up on “The Family”: Six Questions for Jeff Sharlet by Bill Wasik, Harpers, June 2, 2008, and this review of Jeff Sharlet's book The Family: the Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power)

Note: I don't necessarily endorse everything the above pages say. But nearly all of what they say is accurate as far as I am aware. And they represent a variety of points of view, both political and religious.

There are also ultra-Orthodox movements within Judaism with a similarly theocratic agenda - and which have enlisted the support of some like-minded non-Jews.

Traditionally, Jews don't try to convert non-Jews to Judaism. However, Jews traditionally do believe that all humans, including non-Jews, are obliged to obey the seven "Noahide laws," one of which is the establishment of courts of justice to enforce the other Noahide laws. At least "theoretically," this would include a death penalty for "idolators," "blasphemers," and homosexuals - albeit by beheading, rather than by stoning. There is now a new and growing "Noahide" religious movement of non-Jews who have not fully converted to Judaism, but who follow the teachings of Jewish rabbis (usually Orthodox or ultra-Orthodox rabbis) regarding the Noahide laws, and whose ultimate aim to establish a worldwide theocracy. Noahide groups differ on whether and to what extent the "death penalty" is to be taken literally, but, as far as I can tell so far, it seems that most Noahide groups, or at least the more visible ones, do call for a literal death penalty for purely religious transgressions.

Although I don't consider theocratic Jews and Noahides to be anywhere nearly as much of a threat, at the present time, as either the Muslim or Christian religious right wing, I will devote more space to theocratic Jews and Noahides in this post simply because the topic is newer to me.

The website of a Noahide group called the First Covenant Foundation contains the best introductions to Noahidism I've been able to find, so far, in the following articles:

The Seven Laws of Noah and the Non-Jews who Follow Them by Michael Kress

B'nai No'ach:The Reappearance of the God-fearers in our Time by James D. Tabor

A brief history of the beginnings of the Modern Day Bnai Noach Movement by Jack E. Saunders

Keep the Seven, Go to Heaven by Chaim Revier

Several Noahide groups and websites are connected with Chabad Lubavitch, a worldwide Hasidic Jewish movement based here in New York. One of these websites, Ask Noah - The Seven Laws of Noah, is characterized as follows on the links page of the website of First Covenent Foundation (which is not affiliated with Chabad Lubavitch:

(CHABAD - Hasidic Jews - for Noahides. These people teach some extremely peculiar doctrines, like the idea that their late leader, Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson, was more than human. They refuse to acknowledge our existence or that of Rainbow Covenant, the book. Their teachings on the 7 Laws tend to be crude, archaic, and extremely off-putting. They are, however, fairly active, and they often add new content. Take the good, if you can find it, ignore the bad; be warned!)

Other Noahide websites affiliated with Chabad Lubavitch tend to be even more "crude, archaic, and extremely off-putting." For example, The Institute of Noahide Code has a page on The Seven Laws of the Descendents of Noah which includes the following:

The Seven Noahide laws are general commandments with many details. Transgressing any one of them is considered such a breach in the natural order that the offender incurs the death penalty. Apart from a few exceptions, the death sentence for a Ben Noach is Sayif, death by the sword / decapitation, the least painful of the four modes of execution of criminals (see the Rambam's Hilchos Melachim 9:14). (The four methods of capital punishment in Torah are: S’kilah - Stoning; S’rifah - Burning; Hereg - Decapitation; Henek - Strangulation.) The many formalities of procedure essential when the accused is an Israelite need not be observed in the case of the Noachite. The latter may be convicted on the testimony of one witness, even on that of relatives, but not on that of a woman. He need have had no warning from the witnesses; and a single judge may pass sentence on him (Sanhedrin 57a, b; Rambam, Hilchos Melakim 9:14).

Also affiliated with Chabad Lubavitch is a political activist group called Jews and Hasidic Gentiles United to Save America. Note its call for the total abolishment of all other religions:

The only halachic approach to Sheva Mitzvos, is that every single human being is required to observe the Sheva Mitzvos in all their hundreds of ramifications in totality. There is no room for dialogue with other religions, for the 'purification of Christianity' or lost-ten-tribes theology. These falsehoods, promoted by the Root and Branch Association and others, including the leadership of the Noachide groups in Tennessee, are destructive anti-Torah viewpoints. The Rambam writes that the time will come when Christians and Muslims will realize that their religions are false, and fault their forefathers for teaching it to them. They will accept the One G-d of the Jewish people, and all other religions, in any form or variation, will be abolished in their entirety. The time for this is now, and all other approaches only are intended to delay the revelation of the absolute Truth of Torah in the entire world.

See also this site's pages about The Hasidic Gentile Campaign and The Final War for Jerusalem. The latter page presents an elaborate conspiracy theory featuring the "Amaleki," in many ways an eerie mirror image of classic anti-Jewish conspiracy theories. The Amaleki are alleged to control a still-alive-and-kicking worldwide Communist conspiracy, which in turn is alleged to be behind just about everything wrong with the world, including rival groups and movements within Judaism/Noahidism. (Most other Jews, including most Hasidic Jews, have a more metaphorical interpretation of "Amalek.") The conspiracy theory is devoloped in more detail in the group's newsletters, which contain a flood of claims but little or no documentation. The absence of documentation is excused as follows:

(Note: The underground Communist apparatus and its aboveground tentacles are actively engaged in subversion in all sectors and institutions of society today. Its agents would dearly love to know the full extent of our information, which would assist their disinformation efforts. Consequently, we do not divulge all our facts or sources. These profiles are intended only as a warning to the wise to monitor the individuals and groups exposed here, and to avoid their influence.)

Yeah, right....

The following sites do not appear to be affiliated with Chabad Lubavitch and are not as "crude, archaic, and extremely off-putting" as the above two sites, but they too call for "the death penalty with the sword":

Noahide Nations (see its its page about courts of justice)

Sheva Mitzvot Bnei Noach (see its FAQ and its page on the seven laws)

BecomingJewish.org - Noahide

Mainstream Jews, apparently, do not advocate a death penalty for purely religious transgressions. (See the section on Noahide laws as a basis for secular governance in the Wikipedia article on the Seven Laws of Noah.) I don't know how many Noahides believe that such a death penalty should be applied literally in their idealized world. But most of the more visible Noahide groups, or at least most of those with websites, do seem to advocate it.

A more moderate Noahide position is presented in the article Can I be a Christian, or an atheist, say, and still keep the First Covenant? on the website of the First Covenant Foundation.

Another relatively mellow-seeming Noahide group is the Root and Branch Association, based in Israel. But they seem to be affiliated with Israel's theocratic movement.

Alas, even the most moderate Noahides seem to be quite anti-gay, if the websites are at all representative.

Anyhow, it doesn't seem at all likely to me that the Noahide movement will displace Christianity anytime soon, if ever. It's still a very small religious movement. Even many Jews aren't yet aware that it exists.

Looking around for some information about Noahidism by scholarly outsiders, I found only a few blog posts by Richard Bartholomew in the Gentiles for Judaism category, which also covers a few other religious movements besides the Noahides.

I also found, alas, lots of nonsense on the web by anti-Jewish bigots promoting panic about Noahidism, which they claim is the latest Jewish plot to take over the world, supposedly on the verge of succeeding tomorrow! So far, these panic-mongers are almost the only people paying any attention at all to the Noahide movement, besides the Noahides themselves and their Jewish mentors

Although I don't expect the Noahide movement to grow very big, let alone take over the world, I do expect that it may become influential out of proportion to its numbers, because the command to "establish courts of justice" cam be taken as an obligation to engage in political activism. (See, for example, Should B'nai Noach get involved in politics? on the website of the First Covenant foundation.) In most cases this seems to mean involvement in either pro-Israel or religious right wing activism. Still, as a sector within the religious right wing here in the U.S.A., I don't expect that them to become anywhere nearly as influential as the Christian religious right wingers.

I mentioned earlier that some Noahide groups have ties to theocratic movements in Israel. In Israel, the ultra-orthdox movements are still a minority, but growing rapidly, partly due just to family size. The ultra-Orthodox believe they've been commanded by God to have as many babies as they can possibly squeze out, whereas more moderate Jews typically have just one or two children.

The potentially most dangerous groups are those that aim to build the Third Temple, including the Temple Institute, the Temple Mount and Eretz Yisrael Faithful Movement, and Revava.

Problem: the Temple Mount is also the third holiest site in Islam, and the Dome of the Rock Mosque now sits where the temple once stood. So, building the Third Temple would require tearing down the Dome of the Rock Mosque, which would start a world war. So, the majority of Jews, and the government of Israel, do not approve of the Temple Mount movement and its aims. Even most Orthodox Jews do not believe that the Temple can or should be rebuilt until after the Moshiach (Messiah) arrives.

However, here in the U.S.A., there are lots of evangelical Christian preachers acting as cheerleaders for the Temple Mount movement. Many of these U.S. evangelical Christian preachers are premillenialists who, apparently, want to provoke Armageddon.

For some of the oddities connected with the Temple Mount movement and its U.S. evangelical Christian supporters, see:

Holy cow! Will red heifer save world, cattle industry? by Jeremy Shere, Jerusalem Post, Friday July 11, 1997

Holy Cow! by Lindsay Wlliams, April 16, 2000

Bartholomew's Notes on Religion has a large collection of posts about Israel and the Israeli Far Right

Among other things, there's a group of mostly extreme right wing ultra-Orthodox rabbis who have organized what is supposed to be a new "Sanhedrin," although it has no official standing. Some relevant posts by Richard Bartholomew:

Hal Lindsey Puffs Kahanists at WND

“Israeli Supreme Court anti-Jewish” – “Sanhedrin” spokesman

Jews, Joes, and Gentiles for Judaism

Sanhedrin Celebrates First Birthday

“Sanhedrin” (Allegedly) Implies that Israeli Maj.-Gen Should be Killed

Israeli Far-Rights Calls for Women to be Expelled from IDF

Bartholomew's Notes on Religion has the following posts about gay rights in Israel:

Gay Protest (Yehuda Levin)

Jerusalem the Pink

Moscow and Jerusalem United In Homophobia

Still, despite the growing strength of the Israeli religious right wing, it seems that GLBT rights are better in Israel than anywhere else in the Middle East.

Below are links to some pages about GLBT rights in Israel:

Queer in the Land of Sodom, Gully, February 21, 2002

Police authorize Jerusalem pride parade, Israeli News, June 14, 2007

Wikipedia article on LGBT rights in Israel

Online economics resources, useful in debates with LaVeyans and others

2008-05-25T21:38:29Z

These past several days, in conjunction with writing my responses to Julian Karswell, I've been reviewing and updating my knowledge of economics. To that end, I've managed to find some online textbooks and other online resources.

I may again have occasion to refer to them when debating with LaVeyans and others, so I've put together a list.

First, for a brief though dated summary of developments in the field of economics, I found a New York Times article giving an overview of economic controversies as of 1989: Economic Scene; Reality's the Thing This Field Needs by Leonard Silk, December 29, 1989 (another copy here)

I also found a bunch of online textbooks and tutorials:

Essential Principles of Economics: A Hypermedia Text by Roger A. McCain, 2007, including a section on Monetarism, which discusses the ongoing debate between Keynesians and monetarists

Online Text and Notes in Principles of Macroeconomics

Cybereconomics, including sections on Microeconomics and Macroeconomics

biz/ed Economics, including Macroeconomic Controversies

Economic Theory on the Paul Krugman archive site, including chapters from Economics by Paul Krugman and Robin Wells

It would seem that economics is still far from being a fully mature science. There's still quite a bit of debate about some fundamental issues, especially in macroeconomics. The authors of the above textbooks do present various points of view, but, except for Paul Krugman, they tend to favor a conservative view.

For balance, there's an excellent (though dated) website called Liberalism Resergent by the late Steve Kangas, 1996. While not limited to economics, this site has many sections on economic issues, with citations of scholarly sources. See especially the economic sections of The Long FAQ on Liberalism.

Also interesting are Paul Krugman's columns, including a collection of essays on crank economics.

On the conservative/libertarian side, another resource is The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics, on the website of something called the "Library of Economics and Liberty."

I also found what appears (at least at first glance) to be a relatively unbiased presentation of various Recent Macroeconomic Controversies and Policy Debates, as of 1998, presenting a variety of points of view.

Finally, here's the article on Philosophy of Economics in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

Brad Hicks, calling attention to Hillary Clinton's involvement with Doug Coe's "Family"/"Fellowship"

2008-05-18T19:45:30Z

One of my heroes is Brad Hicks, who was one of the earliest activists against the "Satanic Ritual Abuse" scare back in the 1980's. (He discusses this briefly in the following posts of his here on LiveJournal: Wicca Lies (part 3): Hierarchy and Wow, I Haven't Been Threatened for My Writing in More than a Decade.) He was president of the Alliance of Magical and Earth Religions (AMER), in which Michael Aquino, founder of the Temple of Set, was also active.

Anyhow, a recent post of his calls attention to something very scary about Hillary Clinton. Her pastor, Doug Coe, runs a secretive, cultish group called "The Family" or "The Fellowship," to which a lot of religious right wing politicians also belong.

Brad refers us to the following:

Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics by Kathryn Joyce and Jeff Sharlet, Mother Jones, 9/1/07

Hillary's Nasty Pastorate by Barbara Ehrenreich, 3/19/08

Here are some relevant mainstream media stories I found elsewhere:

Hillary's Minister Problem: Barack Obama isn't the only candidate with ties to a controversial religious group by Joshua Green, The Atlantic, Wednesday, 03.26.08

How Hillary Clinton turned herself into the consummate Washington player: Take Two: Hillary's Choice by Joshua Green, The Atlantic, November 2006

Showing Faith in Discretion by Lisa Getter, Los Angeles Times, Sep 27, 2002

Jesus plus nothing: Undercover among America's secret theocrats by Jeffrey Sharlet, Harper's, March 2003

I also found the following on a blog called Outing Dominionism:

Just *what* is "The Family" so desperate to hide? - Wed Apr 9, 2008

The *other* members of Hillary's "Family" cell - Mon Apr 7, 2008

"The Family" and its use of cells, explained - Sun Apr 6, 2008

Hillary Clinton member of "cell church" run by "The Family" - Fri Apr 4, 2008

And the following blog posts elsewhere:

Hillary’s right-wing religious cult connection? on a Wordpress.com blog called "The Learning Curve," March 27, 2008

Frank Wolf and the "Christian Nationalists" on a Google/Blogspot blog called "Farewell Frank," Friday, January 11, 2008

Hillary Clinton "has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters", Madfloridian's journal on Democratic Underground, Thu May 01st 2008

On another topic, another excellent post on Brad Hicks's blog: Republicans and the War on Justice.

P.S., 5/19/2008: Regarding Brad Hicks's fight against the SRA scare, I just now came across another relevant post of his: Personal History: Me versus a Religious Bigot Cop.

Vatican vs. Harry Potter

2008-05-17T00:16:09Z

Something I missed when it happened, but I just came across it recently: As of January 2008, it seems that the Vatican has revived the hullabaloo about Harry Potter. However, I find two very different accounts of this:

Potter "Driving Kids to Satanism" by Cameron Millar, Daily Star (U.K.), 16th January 2008

The Vatican Revives the Harry Potter Debate by Emil Steiner, Washington Post, January 15, 2008

Both news stories refer to something titled "The Double Face of Harry Potter" in the Vatican's official newspaper L'Osservatore Romano.

According to the Daily Star story, "The Double Face of Harry Potter" is a "rant" about how Harry Potter "ncourages children to become Satan worshippers."

The Washington Post article describes "The Double Face of Harry Potter" as consisting of two essays, one by a person who disapproves of Harry Potter and another by a person who thinks Harry Potter is okay, and there is no mention of the disapproving article saying anything about kids becoming "Satan worshipers."

Unfortunately, it seems that the original L'Osservatore Romano articles are no longer available online, so I can't determine for sure what they really said.

The Washington Post article ends by asking: "... one has to wonder why the Vatican would want to revive this debate. Could the recent revelations of Dumbledore's sexual orientation have something to do with it?"

South Carolina: "hot zone" for church/state separation issues

2008-05-16T22:59:51Z

On the blog A Heathen's Day, I just now learned about a news story in the Charlotte Observer (Charlotte, North Carolina), SC lawmakers have religion on minds, in bills by Jim Davenport, Associated Press, Tue, May. 13, 2008, in which Democratic Senator Yancey McGill (of South Carolina) says that Wicca is not a religion, and he's not sure about Buddhism.

The article is about three bills now being considered by the South Carolina legislature, all involving some form state endorsement of religion. One of these involves issuing Christian-themed license plates. McGill said he would welcome tags for other religions too, but, as for Wicca, "Well, that's not what I consider to be a religion." As for Buddhism, "I'd have to look at the individual situation."

"A Heathen's Day" cited the Wild Hunt blog, which referred to an earlier post, The ACLU, South Carolina, and Religious Minorities, about how South Carolina has generally become one of the "hot zones" for church/state separation and religious freedom issues.

Laurie Cabot - willfully ignorant about Satanist views on animal sacrifice?

2008-05-13T14:01:20Z

According to the news story What washed up on the Keansburg beach? by Alyssa Passeggio, Bayshore Courier (New Jersey, U.S.A.), May 9, 2008:

Keansburg Police Deputy Chief James Pigott said Patrolman Michael Deaney responded to a finding of four garbage bags and two shopping bags containing headless chickens and the innards on April 17. There are no suspects, Pigott said.

The April incident brought back memories of findings of animal parts on the Keansburg beach last year, which non-traditional faith expert Laurie Cabot characterized as a ritual performed by individuals practicing Santeria, San Paulo, Voodon or Satanism.

"Satanism"??? In a statement by Laurie Cabot??? That's Laurie Cabot, the well-known modern Pagan Witch from Salem, Massachusetts, I presume? Now presenting herself as an "expert," not just on Pagan Witchcraft but on "non-traditional faiths" in general?

Did she really say that "Satanists" might be responsible for a pile of chicken remains??? Or the hoof of a "deer, goat or sheep" mentioned later in the article?

If so, shame on her. Surely she ought to know better by now. She has no excuse for such an ignorant claim.

The best-known form of Satanism, LaVeyan Satanism, specifically prohibits animal sacrifice, as do most other forms of Satanism too, including most forms of theistic Satanism. (LaVeyan Satanists are mostly atheistic and regard Satan as just a symbol.)

More about Satanism and animal sacrifice, including my own view:

Here's my own view on animal sacrifice, as stated on my page about animal sacrifice on my Theistic Satanism site:

... I personally do not practice animal sacrifice, nor do I endorse it in the context of Satanism. The traditional idea behind animal sacrifice is that it somehow feeds the gods. I do not believe that Satan needs to be "fed." Apparently some other, lesser gods or other spirits do need or want that particular kind of attention. But Satan Himself does not seem hungry for human worship of any kind, let alone sacrificial worship.

As far as I can tell, the vast majority of theistic Satanists do not practice animal sacrifice either. I've run into a few who do, and, so far, I have not been favorably impressed. To be fair, I should mention that the few animal sacrificing theistic Satanists I've spoken to did seem to be motivated by a sincere religious belief and, contrary to popular stereotype, did not seem to me to be just thrill-killers. Nevertheless they seemed to me to be extremely immature, both intellectually and emotionally, and they had an unnerving tendency to emulate the most obnoxious fundamentalist Pentecostal/charismatic-type Christians in many respects. I'm still open to the possibility that I might someday meet an animal sacrificing theistic Satanist whom I can respect, but at this point it seems highly unlikely.

Animal sacrifice doesn't make sense in the context of most forms of theistic Satanism that I'm aware of. But it does make sense in the context of traditional folk religions. And it makes sense for Satanists to favor the religious freedom of traditional folk religions. It makes sense for us to uphold the religious freedom of all who practice animal sacrifice in a reasonably humane manner - even the relatively few Satanists who do so, however misguided the rest of us may think they are.

I should add here that most Satanists, including most theistic Satanists, oppose animal sacrifice much more staunchly than I do.

What about "Devil worshipers"?

Perhaps Laurie Cabot really said "Devil worshipers" rather than "Satanists." However, even if you accept the typical LaVeyan semantic gerrymandering distinction between "Satanists" and "Devil worshipers," it is still highly unlikely that even a ritual by "Devil worshipers" would leave behind a bagful of headless chickens, or hooves of deer, sheep, or goats. As I said, even most theistic Satanists do not practice animal sacrifice. Furthermore, among the few who do practice animal sacrifice, most don't live on farms and are unlikely to have access to live farm animals.

As far as I am aware, the only public theistic Satanist sect known to practice animal sacrifice is the followers of "Brother Nero." (See my page about "Brother Nero" et al.) As far as I am aware, they typically sacrifice hamsters, not chickens, and they require that the animal be all-black.

There have been, of course, numerous teenage Satanic dabblers who have believed that they needed to sacrifice animals. But the average American teenager is unlikely to know where to get a live chicken. Nor does the average American teenager have easy access to deer, goats, or sheep either.

Hence an animal-sacrificing teenage Satanic dabbler is far more likely to use animals more readily available, such as mice. Anyone can purchase a humane mouse trap at a hardware store, thus can easily capture a live mouse. And there's no law against killing mice, although leaving their remains in the wrong places could violate local anti-littering or sanitary laws. (For more about the legalities of animal sacrifice, see Animal sacrifice and the law on my page about animal sacrifice.)

The sacrifice of farm animals, such as chickens, sheep, and goats, is an almost sure sign of a genuinely old religious or magic(k)al tradition of pre-industrial origin, not something cooked up by modern Americans or other modern Westerners - as are nearly all forms of Satanism including so-called "orthodox traditional" Satanism. (See my pages about so-called traditional Satanism and orthodox Satanism.)

So, did the Aborishas do it?

I also question whether the particular animal remains discussed in the Bayshore Courier article are really attributable to Aborishas (Santeros) or other Afircan Diaspora religion practitioners either. The news story says that the accused suspects, "Diana Hernandez and her son, Alain," are "admitted Aborishas, followers of the Santeria religion, ... but they denied any involvement in the incident."

Indeed, it also seems very unlikely to me that a Santero would leave headless chickens in garbage bags. That seems to me like a very non-traditional - and not very reverent - way to dispose of a sacrifice. More likely they would just leave the remains on the ground in some remote place, it seems to me. (That is, if they believe that the chicken remains need to be left behind at all, as distinct from just offering the blood to the Orishas and eating the rest of the chicken themselves.)